MSC3985: Break-out rooms #3985

SimonBrandner · 2023-03-27T09:20:29Z

Done with a community 🎩 on as a part of my high-school graduation thesis

Signed-off-by: Šimon Brandner <simon.bra.ag@gmail.com>

proposals/3985-break-out.md

deepbluev7 · 2023-03-27T09:29:36Z

proposals/3985-break-out.md

+
+VoIP applications such as Zoom or MS Teams support break-out rooms - a mechanism
+for splitting users into multiple calls. This proposal suggests a mechanism for
+break-out rooms in Matrix which would not be limited to VoIP use-cases.


This sounds really useful for me personally to split out some discussions. I think what I would still need is a way to force users to only talk in the breakout room temporarily. Do you have some easy ideas for that, that might be easy to cover in a follow up MSC? :)

Hmm, that's a good point. I don't think I have anything in mind. The best I can think of atm is just temporarily changing permissions

Signed-off-by: Šimon Brandner <simon.bra.ag@gmail.com>

proposals/3985-break-out.md

uhoreg · 2023-03-27T13:54:55Z

proposals/3985-break-out.md

+            "!roomId1": {
+                "via": ["example.org", "other.example.org"],
+                "users": ["userId1", "userId2"]
+            },


Would it be helpful to add some more information about the room? Such as a stripped state event list, so that users can more easily choose which room to join?

Having a topic or a name might indeed be helpful. In University, we had them for example named by Groups. "Group 1", "Group 2"... Something like that might be nice to have.

I wonder if storing that in the breakout rooms and then using something like the /hierarchy API would alleviate duplication...

I was thinking we'd use MSC3266 to avoid the duplication and the info getting out of sync

Using the /hierarchy is definitely an interesting idea... I wonder if m.space.child should be used if we'd go that route but I don't really like how it would mean the info is spread over multiple events

Could also modify that API to return different events or something for different room types 🤷 There's a lot of ways to cut it...

I think we can just use the room name and topic and so don't have to modify the API?

proposals/3985-break-out.md

Signed-off-by: Šimon Brandner <simon.bra.ag@gmail.com>

MTRNord · 2023-03-27T18:08:40Z

proposals/3985-break-out.md

+    "content": {
+        "m.breakout": {
+            "!roomId1": {
+                "via": ["example.org", "other.example.org"],


I guess this technically isn't the fault of the MSC itself but the via process in itself how it currently is handled, but how would this get updated if the via servers get stale? Are we expecting the event to be short-lived enough for this to be no concern? Or should they get updated if some condition is met (like last person on an HS left)?

I don't think the space MSC solves this either?

Yeah, I don't think it does. But it's just another area where this "bug" happens. And in theory, this MSC still has the chance to do something about it. :) Hence, I was pointing it out. Though of course it may be better to solve that in another dedicated MSC? Not sure what's the best tbh.

MTRNord · 2023-03-27T18:11:23Z

proposals/3985-break-out.md

+
+### VoIP use-case
+
+If a user is participating in a call when the event is sent, they should either


Mostly a UX question that might be beyond the scope of MSC process, but should this be semi-automatic (like Zoom does it) or would the expected behavior be that the user has to reconfirm joining it? (This comment is not a concern against the MSC. So imho it should not be considered as part of the process. It's just an implementation question)

I feel like this could be client-specific

robintown · 2023-03-29T18:27:13Z

proposals/3985-break-out.md

+client should warn the user, if the event is coming from an unknown user (one
+with whom we don't have a DM) who is not an admin/moderator either.
+
+## Potential issues


If you're in a large call and want to create, say, 10 breakout rooms, rate limiting could become a problem. A separate MSC could make it possible to bulk-create rooms, perhaps?

Hmm, good point...

I had written MSC3192 while doing the spaces stuff....

Oh, but you're concerned about creating the rooms... yeah I'm not sure how to differentiate it from spam. 😢

proposals/3985-break-out.md

Co-authored-by: Jaryk <ugzuzg@gmail.com>

cloudrac3r · 2024-02-22T01:08:31Z

proposals/3985-break-out.md

+An alternative for the VoIP use-case would be having multiple calls in one room
+along with multiple threads for chat. While this works alright for some
+use-cases, it has its limitations.


Could you describe an example use-case where threads are not sufficient?

SimonBrandner added feature Suggestion for a significant extension which needs considerable consideration proposal A matrix spec change proposal needs-implementation This MSC does not have a qualifying implementation for the SCT to review. The MSC cannot enter FCP. labels Mar 27, 2023

SimonBrandner changed the title ~~MSC: Break-out rooms~~ MSC3985: Break-out rooms Mar 27, 2023

Break-out rooms MSC

bcc67d9

Signed-off-by: Šimon Brandner <simon.bra.ag@gmail.com>

SimonBrandner force-pushed the msc/break-out branch from 9031e12 to bcc67d9 Compare March 27, 2023 09:21

SimonBrandner marked this pull request as ready for review March 27, 2023 09:22

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Give a few join rule examples

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Signed-off-by: Šimon Brandner <simon.bra.ag@gmail.com>

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turt2live added kind:feature MSC for not-core and not-maintenance stuff voip and removed feature Suggestion for a significant extension which needs considerable consideration labels Mar 27, 2023

Take suggestions into account

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Signed-off-by: Šimon Brandner <simon.bra.ag@gmail.com>

SimonBrandner requested review from deepbluev7, MTRNord, uhoreg and clokep and removed request for deepbluev7 and MTRNord March 27, 2023 17:36

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SimonBrandner mentioned this pull request Mar 29, 2023

MSC3401: Native Group VoIP Signalling #3401

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This was referenced Sep 26, 2023

Add support for break-out rooms matrix-org/matrix-js-sdk#3753

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Add support for break-out rooms element-hq/element-call#1615

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Fix typo

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Co-authored-by: Jaryk <ugzuzg@gmail.com>

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MSC3985: Break-out rooms #3985

MSC3985: Break-out rooms #3985

SimonBrandner commented Mar 27, 2023 •

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		### VoIP use-case

		If a user is participating in a call when the event is sent, they should either

MSC3985: Break-out rooms #3985

Are you sure you want to change the base?

MSC3985: Break-out rooms #3985

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SimonBrandner commented Mar 27, 2023 •

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